Official West Hartlepool RFC

The AMS will probably be West 3rd team in the 10/11 season which is a damn shame

Why will that be? Arn't the Buck's the third team??

Missed my point LS.

Heard it will be Bucks RIP next season

Honestly i did not miss your point and a serious one it is. We as 2 clubs in West and the Ams cannot let that happen. It will be a massive step backwards and all involved, wether players or other need to all roll their sleeves up and ensure we continue to grow as a whole unit and develop the club to it'ss full potential.

Regardless of tradition im sure it would make more sense to make it a worth while competition to enter for some teams. Sometimes it makes sense to be flexible and move with the times.

There isnt much sense in a team that plays week in week out at a standard as high as the CANDY league being pitted against one that plays/struggles to field a side in the Tees Social League.

Perhaps two seperate competitions could run simultaneously to suit all parties and give everyone a chance to compete? The Pyman Cup and a Plate/Shield perhaps?

Why not create a 3rd or 4th team cup?

Although i do not know exactly what to do about it the pyman is in danger of dying out it is not a good situation when effectively only 3 competitive games have been played including the final in the whole competition (the west ams game although I am sure played in the spirit of the game was unfortunately a forgone conclusion)

A couple of ideas to make it more competitive.

The two finalists play each other 1st game the year after.
The two loosing semi finalists play in a wooden spoon play-off.
The team selection availability rules are firmed up (that is not a wine or dig at any team it would help everyone).
Saturday game is a good idea the competition could spread over a longer period of the season with only the finals played on a Night at the end of the season.
The eligibility of 1st teams to be made totally clear depending on league position.
Also I would suggest the strength of the west stags last year or two when the 1st team where doing well in there current league would suggest a 3rd team should be entered in future if any team reaches that level.

Not all popular not all would suite us or any of the 2nd teams in the competition but some might help to put the competitive nature back into what in my opinion is an excellent competition.

I am sure someone with have a dig but its just an opinion and some thoughts

Smuddger

smudger, i think i might have to have a lie down as i think you make some good points!!

The Ams stood up and gave a good game!!

i dont think its necessarily a case of teams just 'fronting up' to breathe life into the tournament.

I stick by that the Pyman Cup should remain as it is a a good, unique tournament that reflects our strength as a rugby town that we can hold such a competition. But barring the final and depending whos drawn against who in the earlier rounds, how competitive (in terms of scoreline) really is it?

In my opinion West, Rovers, Horden seconds and perhaps first teams such as BBOB and Ath should compete for the Pyman Cup. But to make it interesting for the other teams in the town, the lowest ranked team from each club (i.e bucks, ams, rovers thirds, horden thirds, hartlepool 2nds, seaton 2nds) should contest in a Pyman shield/plate or something like that. Again thats just my opinion.

I personally cannot believe that anyone is advocating moving the Pyman Cup from what is primarily a Wednesday night based competition - for me that is the best thing about the whole event. Aside from the Pyman Cup I would love to see some midweek 'friendlies' played at this time of the season . It's not been the case this season at West with a relegation battle but for some teams (and us last season) mid table at Christmas time can bring with it a certain monotomy to the league rugby that follows.

Whether you're a player, coach or spectator a midweek game gives you something extra to look forward to and gets you out the house on a day other than Saturday. An extra game for the players, a chance for coaches to watch players who they might not get to see in competitive situations very often and likewise for spectators.

How many opportunities do players who play the majority of their rugby at this level get to play in front of such a sizeable following? This would not be the case were the games switched to a Saturday, as once again a lot of the second teams would be competing against their 1st teams for support. Playing resources at most clubs are more likely to be stretched on a Saturday. West have had to scratch about on a number of Saturdays recently for a Stags side but tend to face no such problems for a Wednesday night game - various reasons for that but one being the players like the 'change' of the Pyman Cup.

I think that there is no reason why the cup should not still run successfully in it's current format - after all it has for years. Having said that, I would like to see the current draw 'template', which seems to pit the same sides against each other in the first round year after year, ripped up.

If people were adamant that change needed to be made, perhaps a parallel competition, where the 4 highest ranked sides play in a round robin over 3 Wednesday nights and accumulate points for wins or drawn games. Tries scored, etc., could come into account in event of a tie. The four lowest ranked sides would follow the same format in a parallel (or plate) competition.

For the purposes of rankings, the 3 Candy League sides would form the basis of the top tier competition plus the side with the highest league ranked first team from the remaining teams (currently Old Boys). If it was felt that the fourth ranked team would struggle if a bone fide second team was played, then let that team play some of the regular first team players from their club (Stags v Seaton 1st Team Pyman Cup games have given us some decent rugby in recent seasons as an example). Perhaps by 'legalising ringers' we might stop some moans (perhaps not) but more importantly get a decent level of rugby that people want to be involved in.

The second tier would therefore be contested by the four lower ranked teams - currently Seaton, Athletic, BBOB and the Ams - and follow exactly the same format. There is perhaps even scope here to include some of the towns third team sides and split the lower league in two - once again I'm sure players playing at that level would jump at the chance to be involved.

It might be nice to have a 'finals day' of sorts between the top two teams in their respective leagues - this could perhaps be on a weekend to allow the games to be played one after the other, giving people a feast of rugby and moving around the clubs on a seasonal basis. Might be good in the absence of Rovers 7's which along with the Oakes game provided a chance to mix outside your own club and provided a focus to the end of the season.

Thoughts only but keep it Wednesday.

I agree with a Tim,

Love the Wednesday night rugby and suspect the Wednesdays aren't really the thing causing games to be called off.

Under the current rules I'm fairly sure Hartlepool could have legitimately fielded their first XV against the Stags but because they see it as a 2nd team comp they chose to stick to 2nd team only and then cried off.

I like a lot of Smuddgers ideas and having been involved with 2nd team rugby and the Pyman for so long he is well positioned to know what would work.

The Wednesday nights are ideal for clubs to look at some of the fringe and younger players in a more serious game situation that is not always practical on a Saturday...some clubs take this opportunity, others don't.

I'm all for keeping the knock out format as the number of games involved in a round robin format would be demanding for the level of fitness of some of the players involved (i.e. 3rd team/social players and older 2nd teamers) as playing 2 games a week on hard ground does take its toll:

Would like to see some sort of rule enhancement to team eligibility as per Smuddgers comment - i.e.

Level X and below you may enter your 1st XV, Level X to level X you may enter your 2nd XV and above Level X you must enter your 3rd team.

I think the loose rules about player eligibility are manageable now, but may benefit from some formalising.

There should be some sort of seeding takes place based upon previous Seasons Pyman Cup/Durham-Northumberland League/CANDY League/Social League performances (As I understand the draw is made in the August prior to the season starting so the season the cup is played in is too late for use in seeding).

Love the idea of teams losing in the Semi's playing in a plate game.

Lots of good ideas that could make a good competition even better.

A plate game for losing semi-finalists could be a good idea.

Wednesday night fixtures should definately remain.