Official West Hartlepool RFC

Possesion is 9/10 ths of any game , if you have the ball then the opposition cannot score , so why oh why this season have i witnessed such totally pointless kicking away of possesion , you expect this kind of rugby from 10 yr olds ( perhaps i`m doing every 10 yr old an injustice ) , but not from a team that has played such exciting flowing rugby the last few years , several players this season have kicked the ball away as an easy option and it has been so frustrating becouse it served absolutely no offensive purpose , in fact the opposite has happened on numerous occasions when the defending team has launched its own offence and usually made yards or worse put points on the board , the only game so far when this did`nt occur was against sheffield , i saw no wastage of possesion and any kicking put the tigers under pressure , but prior to this match and since certain players have wasted lots of effort by players who put a lot into each match , and its them i feel most sorry for , to see all their hard work kicked away aimlessly , the half backs should kick when its an option , they do this as play makers , the full back kicks as and when neccessary as a defencive option , but to me the rest of the team should run with the ball and be supported and look for this support to pass the ball on , afterall a rugby ball is shaped to be passed and caught , i`m sorry for this rant and have gone on long enough , but PLEASE for the rest of the season can we see some running rugby , instead of throwing ( kicking) games away , come on West , win , lose or draw play rugby..........

DH

Please note, U10's are not alowed to kick the ball in a game, perhaps this rule should be brought into all ae groups, including international rugby?

Like your point!

'A frustrated Coach'

It certainly cost us dear today

Couldn't agree more, but watching the internationals over the weekend it's not difficult to see where the young players are getting their ideas from.

Our coaching staff must be encouraging the kicking game or is it just players doing what they think is a good idea.

The misdirected kick that led to the crucial try against Cleckheaton wasn't to blame alone - the kicker should never have been put under pressure by being given possession and the ball was collected deep in their half, but we appear to think you aren't allowed to tackle in this situation.
Too many players were unwilling to take responsibility and treated the ball like a hot potato.
Agree in princple about the kicking though - if you are going to kick, do it properly.

i think the problem to do with kicking is more about not thinking about the prupose of the kick - is it to touch? into space? for someone to run onto? - if it's kicked before you've decided, then it ends up doing none of those things and usually ends up going straight into the hands of the opposition without even bouncing, giving them plenty of time.

Waites can't really be blamed for his kick that led to their try - anyone could miss hit a kick at any time, things like that are just part of the game. The bigger problem was tackling - we would defend well for long periods then all of a sudden one of their men would go through, brushing off tackles as if he was jonah lomu (in his prime!).



Post Edited (08-02-10 10:00)

To be Fair Kicking is a major thing in the Modern game of Rugby , a misplaced kick can ofton be the diffrence between winning and Losing I.E Parisses kicking the ball straight out in the European cup last season giving Quins a Lineout just outside the Stade 22 in which they eventually scored the match winng Drop Goal. Ping Pong Kicking is becoming more Common From the Lower Leagues right upto international Rugby. The Teams Will just Kick the Ball Between each other waiting for the Mistake and Not Offering much attacking intent. Saracens this year have been Jeered by there own Fans for taking this Approach Because it is Boring. It may be Boring but try telling that to the Sarries who are top of the League. Some teams Kick to the Opposition and wait for the Dog legged Definsive Line and Counter Attack and Gain 30 or 40 yards in one go instead of going through 20 - 30 Phases and only gaining 20 yards. Theres never pointless kicking as you'v got to Remember the Players have a Diffrent View from the Spectator and May feel that it is a better option to Kick.

He did say '10yr olds' to be fair, and not under 10s ... 10yr olds can be under 11s, where you can kick. West's under 11s know all about kicking as that's all they seem to do sadly. Is this what our future has in store? Uh oh!!

I'm not bothered by someone kicking it if they think it's the best option, but that was my point - think about it first.

For your information ‘U11s’ although kicking is an aspect brought into the mini’s game at U11’s we do not encourage the players to kick and all the training we do with the kids is centred around ball handling and running with the ball in two hands. If you’d watched us train this season you’d know that virtually all of our training is based around the ball in hand. We do coach kicking, as it is an important part of the game and as a coach you have a responsibility to the kids to cover all aspects of the game, but this forms a small percentage of our overall training time. If you’ve based your blinkered view on yesterday’s game against Mowden Park then I agree we did kick too much and we have already highlighted this to the players concerned and this was by no means a true representation of how we want the kids to play the game. Unfortunately you can do all the training you like, but as soon as the players go onto the pitch, as a coach there is little you can do at the time and can only really look to address things like this in training. I would imagine this might be similar to how the First team coaches feel sometimes!!! As a coach all you can try and do is teach the kids the skills they need to play the game and hope that they are able to apply them in a match situation.

I agree very much with that last point about the coaches being frustrated. The problem we have is that we chop and change the team virtually very week or one reason or another and we lack confidence.
I am sure that if we had had Jon Boatman and Scott Jordan on Saturday we would have won as that game would bave suited them down to the ground.
Looking on the bright side we have good young players getting some hard experience and I am sure it wilel rap dividends in the years to come.

"U11's Coach" - Well said.
Maybe the one posting as "U11s" should be recruited into assisting in training sessions to appreciate what goes on. I'm sure his/her involvement would be most welcome, as volunteers are so hard to come by!

With regards the 1st team performance, think I and others have raised the aimless "kicking" issue up many times. Interestingly on Saturday, when we did keep the ball in hand and moved it around with some nice passing we scored! So what does that tell you?

Shame Davey's try wasn't allowed. If the ref had only moved to his left, it was obvious that the ball was grounded. He was far too quick to blow for "held up".

U11's comments are unfair. The West U11's focus mostly on ball handling skills during training. During their game against DMP they did kick some ball away but they also ran with it a lot. They played with great spirit and determination and enthusiasm. Despite being beaten they never gave in playing their best right up to the end of the game. They, and the other age groups, are commited to playng rugby at West and I think with the numbers of players and the commitment they have to play for our club the future is very bright.

I didn't question anyones coaching abilities or techniques, I simply pointed out a fact that (not only yesterdays game) there's an unhealthy amount of kicking in a lot of games this season. You asked "if" I had based my views on yesterdays game, then immediately referred to my view as "blinkered", assuming the answer to your query was yes. But as I've already stated, my view isn't just based on yesterdays game.

To be honest it was just an example and not a direct attempt to single any person or group of people out for criticism. I was pointing out that there is a worrying amount of kicking going on at West, and most probably a LOT of other junior AND senior teams NATIONWIDE. The bigger picture is sad.

Some fair points there ... see you at training "U11s".

I think what people are not realising is that the majority of the pitch on Saturday was like a bog and made the ball pretty greasy.... Not an excuse, as it was the same for both teams, but to be suggesting we play a wide expansive game on Saturday is a little un-realistic given the level we are playing at (that isn't a dig at the standard, but more the reality that it takes a pretty high level of technical ability to play an expansive game in poor conditions). Yes we kicked a little aimlessly at times, but it was not always on to run either.

Even for WPA his comment about it being an ideal game for Jonny Boatman and Scotty Jordan is way off the mark. Yes they would have made a difference because they are both quality players, but last I checked, they were both pretty quick and elusive, so surely suited to a dry day on a firm suface rather than a wet bog!

The difference between this game and the Sheffield game is very very simple. Before Sheffield, we had a great turn out to both of the weeks session, and people came and worked hard as well as worked on team patterns. Last week and the week before the Middlesbrough game, training attendences were poor. We look like strangers on the pitch because we are strangers when it comes to rugby. Simple, debate over.

As someone who watched West for most of the 90's it amuses me that people are whinging about excessive kicking.

Normally poor kicking has a number of causes:

A) Forwards providing poor, slow ball that nobody take ownership of and is shipped to the backs putting them under immediate pressure.

B) The half backs do not communicate with each other and the ball is delivered to 10 before he wants it/not in the way he wants it.

C) The 10 asks for the ball even though it is coming slowly and is indecisive.

D) The backs are young/inexperienced and have in younger age groups have got away with aimless kicking because they have been a lot faster than their opponents only to find this approach doesn't work against more experienced back 3 combinations.

Much as it pains me to praise him, Stabs was an example of a brilliant tactical kicker who could control the game with his boot and keep opponents penned into their 3rd of the pitch by kicking to corners but one thing he did was never shut his gob telling the scrum half exactly where and when he wanted the ball and more precisely when he didn't want it or when he wanted time to re-position himself.

Shame Barry Taylor abhorred kicking full stop.

So if Satrurday's excuse is a boggy pitch, what about all the other games this season when the surface has been firm and we have the ball in space and still kick it ahead aimlessly...doh!
I know for a fact that the coaches want the ball to be kept in hand, but yet players insist on kicking, when quite frankly they are not very good at it!
Get real!

Take you point to an extent Get Real but their full back didn't have much problem. I dont think anyone would not suggest that the team is better for the inclusion of Jon and Scott.