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That means they'll be able to travel with the Stags who will be looking to go one better than their second place in their first season the excellent CaNDY.
The thirds will also take on the Stags fixtures in the Tees Valley League and form the basis of an Under 21s side.
The Amateurs also look to be in their healthiest position for some time. They have approaches from a number of more senior players looking to enjoy their brand of social/competitive rugby - without the commitment of twice weekly training.
Les Smith, Chairman of Rugby, says: "We've looked at the playing numbers for next season and it's looking very good.
"We are looking to strengthen the first team squad, with one or two new additions, but we also have a lot of talented young players moving up from the junior section who can get their first taste of senior rugby in the thirds which will become our development side."
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Author: Broken Army
Date: 14-05-08 16:31
Will there be enough players to go around? I dont know who is coming up from the juniors, But if not many then I dont think a fourth team is viable. we (3Ams) had squads last season of 31 named players but never saw this amount of players on a Saturday.
We shall see, but I think think it'll be R.I.P to the Ams.
Unless someone cares to enlighten us all.
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Author: Brian McMurdo
Date: 14-05-08 17:04
Ben - Why so negative??
This was discussed at some length at the last Rugby Management meeting and was agreed to be the way forward, with 4 teams operating out of Brinkburn.
There was representation from all existing West teams, plus the Amateurs (3 - Elmo, Tony and Graham) and the M/J Section (myself).
Dave's report above highlights that we are likely to see new players at the club and more 17/18 year olds stepping up for their first taste of Senior rugby.
Player retention is a major National problem (as recognised by the RFU) on stepping up from Junior to Senior level and we must have a structure in place to retain and develop these players, hence the need for a 3rd (Development) team.
In addition, some older players have expressed an interest in playing for the club again and helping out at 3rd and Amateur levels.
This is an excellent opportunity for both West and West Ams, so let's be positive.
Post Edited (14-05-08 17:08)
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Author: Andy Quinn
Date: 14-05-08 17:11
Ben i was not at the meeting as away at work but 100% beleive this will work. It may be a struggle at first but come on...we are used to that and it def is the way forward for West as a whole to grow and flourish :)
Tragic, yes we will be the 4Ams!!!
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Author: Broken Army
Date: 14-05-08 17:40
Dont get me wrong this may work.
But I remember the start of the last season (not this season the one before) Players were meant to be moving up and this never materialised, hence another season of struggle for the Ams. Also I remember being told the start of this season we (the Ams) had to adopt the 3Ams as a way of getting the juniors moving up to play for us otherwise they wouldnt.
Quote:
first taste of senior rugby in the thirds which will become our development side. This comment also puts doubts into my mind.
Sincerely do hope it works.
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Author: Stag1989
Date: 14-05-08 17:58
More additions to the 1st team will mean players possibly dropping down, thus more players than previously, to be fair i didnt think many of my year were going to carry on into senior rugby but if you look in the stags and 3ams there are lots of those that ive played with since a very young age ...
Also not knowing particulary alot about the Amateurs i just wanted to ask the question - is it necessary for the name to stick ? Is it not time that the club becomes one rather than West & the Amateurs, just lyk to hear peoples opinion on the matter .... those that have bin with the amateurs through thick & thin ?
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Author: chris.harrison
Date: 14-05-08 18:29
Ben, as Andy has mentioned, it wont be easy but its up to people like us to make it work (if we dont plan for it then it wont happen).
So lets plan for it, perhaps struggle initially, persevere and make it happen
Stag 1989 - whats in a name? We are going to have the Stags, Bucks & Ams next season so no numbers anywhere. The Ams major role, as has been stated in the thread, is to provide a base for the social rugby players within the club but this does not mean they cannot play for the Bucks. Similarly those players unable to play with the Bucks will be able to get a game with the Ams
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Author: Broken Army
Date: 14-05-08 18:48
Just a point here, a lot of the young uns have played for You (chris) and you brought them through, would they be prepared to play For the Ams with a different manager? Dont get me wrong they all seem like down to earth lads and dont doubt they want to play, but will they play for the Ams and will some of the juniors coming up?
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Author: chris.harrison
Date: 14-05-08 19:17
What you have got to remember Ben is that we are in the process of breaking down barriers and this may take a little time.
This season we asked West Hartlepool youngsters to play for the Ams, a different club, in effect. Obviously some of them were initially not too keen.
But the stage has now been set, the Ams are part of the West Hartlepool umbrella. The junior players see this and will come to accept that the Ams are, in fact, part of the club just like the other teams.
I dont think that they played for me Ben, I always encouraged them to play and chased them up to do it, but realistically they do it because they enjoy playing.
We are going to be offering 60 players (plus subs) a chance to play on Saturday afternoons - where they play is up to them - they have to demonstrate to their team manager that they are worth pushing to the next level if that is what they want to do.
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Author: Andy Quinn
Date: 14-05-08 19:21
Of course they will and by the way Chris was not the manager he was the coach!! I am the manager thank you :oP
Chris has done a cracking job this season with bringing the youngsters through, especially as i could not be there each week this season. We possibly would have fell apart if it were not for his and Elmo's hard work.
As said this season will be hard but i would love to see 5 or 6 teams turning out each week for West and if we keep going this same direction, that will happen.
Incidentally, hopefully next season all West teams will be wearing the same colours also, and i feel that will help cement things as well. Also Stag, i appreciateyour comments about the name and that but if you look at it we are all one club in all but name and that actually benefits all parties. If you give me a shout when you see me in the club i will happily explain in depth why this is so :)
Cheers
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Author: Broken Army
Date: 14-05-08 19:32
I wasnt particularlly saying they played for you Chris but know you put in a lot of hard work getting them there each Saturday, would they have done the same, say Elmo Quinny or I had done it? maybe not with the exception of Quinny.
I said to start with I dont see a lot of the things that go on behind the scenes so was more querying would it work and my opinion that it wouldnt was that, You Chris and Quinny obviously know more than I, and so you are going to put a good arguement across, and I believe you.
Just dont want the same thing as the season before last when we had games people turning up but not enough to get a team and then having to let 20/25 other blokes down at half one on a Saturday. As we all know it aint nice.
Bring on next season and hope it works.:-)
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Author: Andy Quinn
Date: 14-05-08 19:59
Ben, i understand what you are saying and honestly know you have the Ams at heart. Why don't you come on the committee and get a lot more actively involved with the Ams.
Also if we have 20/25 blokes there on a Saturday, no one will be let down as we will be playing a good game of Rugby!!
Post Edited (14-05-08 20:00)
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Author: Broken Army
Date: 14-05-08 20:28
My 20/25 blokes was meaning the teams we may let down.
I'll consider over the summer that offer.
Hears hooping for a bright future.:-P
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Author: Stag1989
Date: 14-05-08 22:54
"The thirds will also take on the Stags fixtures in the Tees Valley League and form the basis of an Under 21s side."
There were rumours that this U21 side may be playing through the week ... possibly looking @ university sides to play, myt this still be possible ?
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Author: Brian McMurdo
Date: 15-05-08 00:03
Stag1989,
Yes that was discussed at the meeting too as a possibility and as Andy has said anything is possible.
We can only react to the interest of the players, ie. if they want that, we will endeavour to accommodate it.
Personally speaking, all is looking good for next season!
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Author: stag789
Date: 15-05-08 08:33
should start asking around schools in the area if they want to have a game of rugby could be good to get the kids off there backsides. Could even be some quality talent out there? any thought went into this?
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Author: Big Chummers
Date: 15-05-08 09:44
Going out to the schools is a good idea as i know other clubs do this at set stages of the year and give a presentation in some form - it does work attracting players into the club.
Big Chummers clothing
www.bigchummersclothing.co.uk
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Author: Brian McMurdo
Date: 15-05-08 10:19
This already happens in schools and has done for a number of years, so is nothing new.
In conjuction with the schools, bodies such as the local RFU RDOs (Rugby Development Officers), Council and HRAG (Hartlepool Rugby Action Group, which has representatives from the clubs in the town) are involved in promoting rugby in the Community.
A lot of schools play Tag at an early age (with the assistance from said bodies) and the town clubs gain new players from this.
Post Edited (15-05-08 12:47)
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Author: Big Chummers
Date: 15-05-08 10:57
Brian if the clubs needs any help with this i am available as i have a fair few contacts in the schools now and supply most of them with uniform.
Big Chummers clothing
www.bigchummersclothing.co.uk
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Author: Stag1989
Date: 15-05-08 11:40
id definetly like to see us competing against university sides .... however they also play their matches on a wednesday like the colleges, will this be another debate of whom the younger lads play for club or college ?
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Author: The Umpa Lumpa
Date: 15-05-08 12:06
So if the Ams are now 'under the West Hartlepool umbrella' and are no longer their own club, does this mean they will be withrawing their entry in future Pyman Cups?
Post Edited (15-05-08 12:14)
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Author: Tragic
Date: 15-05-08 13:42
I just want to clear thisup for my own purposes:
West - N1
Stags - CAndy league
Bucks - Tees Valley Merit League
Ams - Tess Valley Social League
Is this right?
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Author: nog
Date: 15-05-08 14:41
under 21's during the week, is this strictly for the 3rds or all who fall into that age bracket?
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Author: Brian McMurdo
Date: 15-05-08 14:48
Nogger,
Nothing arranged yet. It was a discussed at the meeting as a possibility.
I would assume all U21s would be eligible if it comes off, regardless of the team they represent, although just before an important League game might exempt them. We will see!
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Author: Robok
Date: 15-05-08 15:06
The bucks???? I know u's play in green but :-|:oP How about "The Fawns"?
Chris we all know the major role of the ams was to provide international tickets ;-):oD
Cant see the Ams being in the Pyman cup next year,U's messed up on selection anyway,U's shud be banned and fined !
:-D
GO BOKKE
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Author: stag789
Date: 15-05-08 15:07
so with regards to training will everyone train on the same nights tuesday and thursday as one group?
there were nearly 40 or us on a few occasions last season with another full team there will be loads which will be good to see. Means the coaches will all have to attend and not leave it to Tim,Chris or saus.
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Author: Andy Quinn
Date: 15-05-08 16:37
Robok, people throwing stones in glass houses i think and you DO know what i am on about! :-!
Umpa Lumpa, no it would notbut we are still legally and officially a seperate club, with no registration issues thank you
Tragic, yes that's looks about right
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Author: Andy Quinn
Date: 15-05-08 19:14
Well explain why not then Umpa Lumpa. I assume you fully understand all the history of West and the Ams first though??
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Author: The Umpa Lumpa
Date: 15-05-08 19:35
Like a shark Quinny, like a shark :oP
I have to admit I'm not an expert on the history. I do know that the Ams were established when West turned pro though, and do know that they're both now practically the same club.
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Author: Andy Quinn
Date: 15-05-08 19:42
Well done Umpa Lumpa, you said it!!!! ''I have to admit I'm not an expert on the history. I do know that the Ams were established when West turned pro though, and do know that they're both now practically the same club.''
At last the penny drops!
:oD:oD:oD:oD:oD
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Author: Robok
Date: 15-05-08 20:02
Quinny are u and Tspoon the same person coming out with these riddles and sayings? :oP Umpa the west/ams scenario is unexplainable they just make it up as they go along :oP
ps Quinny, I dont live in a glass house, a mudhut maybe but not a glass house :-D
GO BOKKE
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Author: Andy Quinn
Date: 15-05-08 20:10
Umpa Lumpa, you said yourself. We are still slightly seperated as clubs, and this is how we like it to stay for the time being.
Robok, you know exactly what i mean thank you
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Author: DaveAitch
Date: 15-05-08 23:15
I wish you well on setting up your 4th team. I am not quite sure of the overall setup at West, but just to share some of my experiences:
I have 'done' various teams as captain/manager or as team secretary since 1978 at Caldy. There is always a desire to get the 'lowest' team out, whether it be 4ths, 5ths or 6ths. The club has that desire, but ultimately it is normally down to the efforts of one or two people to make it happen.
I find myself agreeing with much of what Broken Arrow says. It might seem pessimistic, but in fact what he says is realistic. I notice a figure of 31 players in one post. In our 4ths lst season we used 59 players in nine games.
I shall be back doing Caldy 4ths next season. This last season finished just as we finally achieved some good social rugby. People are actually starting to want to play. The game itself matters - but unlike the other teams at the club, ultimately the social side matters more. I does strike me that, with leagues, a lot of the fun has gone out of rugby. It is that fun we need to rekindle.
I hope you all give your backing, real backing, to whoever is putting in the main work as manager of you 4ths. Each club needs to get that extra team out; the lowest team is the most important team in a club. I hope it goes well for you.
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Author: wonderfish
Date: 16-05-08 08:39
I realise I perhaps don't understand but why not just call the Ams the 3rds or the fourths and be done with it? Why the pretence of a separate club? I presume they were created during the Premiership days in order to offer social rugby, now that the club as a whole is a social club why not just disband and pool players?
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Author: west!!!!
Date: 16-05-08 10:29
well from what i hear about the west 1st team possible signings some of last years 1st team could be moved into the stags and so fore into the 3rd team which i think wud make the 3rd team jst as gud if not better than most 2nd teams in the town
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Author: pikey
Date: 16-05-08 11:38
would last years 1st team players be happy to play for the stags? they won a tough league and for that they get dropped into 2nd team rugby?
methinks they would be off to pastures new.
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Author: West Park Allotment
Date: 16-05-08 12:37
Presumably the replacements we are looking for would be to replace Davies and Thorn plus a bit of strengthening of the squad.
My estimate is that we used more than 30 players in the first team last season so we'll need to do the same next season.
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Author: simon cavey
Date: 16-05-08 14:32
interesting - hope we can get 4 teams out - can you play for the bucks if you are over 21??
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Author: chris.harrison
Date: 16-05-08 15:26
simon - yes is the simple answer - the U21 scenario will happen infrequently perhaps 3 - 4 times per season and then not necessarily on a saturday
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Author: oldge
Date: 16-05-08 16:14
All this talk of new players is very interesting but does anyone have names to throw in the hat. I've heard that its more like 10 new players! If that is indeed the case then it would be foolish of the club to think that means we will have 10 extra players next season! People will move on!!!!!!
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Author: chris.harrison
Date: 16-05-08 16:34
Oldge, lets see who turns up
then lets see if they are good enough to get in the 1sts or Stags
then lets worry about keeping people happy
............if the Bucks are playing really good, competitive rugby then keeping people happy will be easier
.........unfortunately we may not be able to keep everyone happy!
ps there was a new face playing touch last night!!!!!!
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Author: Front Row Leg-end
Date: 16-05-08 16:35
Can you call it your 4th team if the ams are a separate club?
Surely it's West 1sts, 2nds and 3rds with West Amateurs 1sts sharing the ground and facilities?
West didn't try to claim Rovers 1sts and 2nds as their 2nd and 3rd team when they shared our ground...why are they claiming the Ams as a 4th team now?
:oP
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Author: chris.harrison
Date: 16-05-08 16:47
If the Ams make up their numbers with West players then it becomes both.
As Robok put it " the west/ams scenario is unexplainable they just make it up as they go along"
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Author: oldge
Date: 16-05-08 17:43
what do i need to give my head a shake over dave? the amount of new players i mentioned or the fact that i said lads would leave?
i'm not trying to stir i'm just trying to find out if any truth lies in the rumours i am hearing! I believe we need some new faces if we wish to compete at the top end of N1 (taking nothing away from the lads this year cos they were all awesome and all mates of mine!) but i was also pointing out that if too many come in we would lose players! i'm not talking about a mass exodus just if a lot of new lads came along 1 or 2 might seek 1st team elsewhere. it happens up and down the country every season!
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Author: Thirdteamer
Date: 17-05-08 10:09
Having watched a North One game the other week while we were down at Birkinhead park I'd say West will need to make a few signings to compete at that level.
Birkinhead park were bigger, fitter, stronger and more organised than any thing I've seen this year in N2E - and by all accounts still only a mid table side.
It'll be interesting to see if the rumours going round about players going to west have any truth in them.
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Author: wonderfish
Date: 17-05-08 12:46
It will be a big ask for West to stay up in North One, would players stay if replaced by imports? Particuarly with Rovers open chequebook policy!!!
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Author: old shepard
Date: 17-05-08 17:58
Great idea.Hope it works. 1st team only as strong as teams behind it.Idea of 3rds playing in Tees valley league a step forward also.Good luck...
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Author: Dave 'Dog' Brown
Date: 17-05-08 18:32
Oldge, I am 100% behind what you are saying. It goes without saying that if lads who are used to playing 1st team find themselves playing more 2nd teams games they MAY try and find 1st team action somewhere else. Not sure why Dave want's you to give your head a shake!!
As for getting 4 teams out, I really really hope it happens and will be fantastic for the club, but will not hold my breath. The thirds struggled for numbers this season gone at times and really curious as to where the extra players are coming from. I know that the Ams actually have something like 30 registered players, but most of these must be closer to playing crown green bowling than rugby, and retired years ago - Tony just likes having them registered still, just in case :):) :oD
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Author: Hon Sec
Date: 19-05-08 09:45
There are quite a few ex 1st teamers who have enjoyed a good season in the Stags. Wallah, Greg, Tinker,Panda,Dash to name a few. Surely the idea is to play for YOUR club and enjoy the rugby and the craic.
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Author: Dave Picken
Date: 19-05-08 10:53
Oldge -I was just suggesting that it was a bit daft to speculate on rumours and start scaremongering. We normally leave that to our neighbours who are quite good at it.
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Author: grievo3
Date: 19-05-08 11:46
Hi People
as an outsider now I think this can only help west you have to plan a new team it will not appear on it own, ask Grievo1.
The thing on the thread I do not understand is the “:oD” and “:oP” at the end of the posts what does this mean.
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Author: grievo3
Date: 19-05-08 15:43
ahh the smilies came up after i posted. Before on the post they were just letters must be our fire wall.
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Author: Chocky's Butler
Date: 19-05-08 15:57
As long as I'm getting a game of rugby I don't care too much and I think the other lads are the same. Rekun we all enjoyed last season whichever team we were playing for at the time.
The only issue we had was when davey walked back into the firsts when he should have had some games in the Stags first
Bit rich for Wonderish to have a pop when I hear Drifield had loads of imports which got them nowhere. The names Ive heard mentioned are all West players who want to come back so deffo not imports.
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Author: Thirdteamer
Date: 19-05-08 23:22
I'd be interested to know if CB plays regular first team - and if not whether he'd still have that attitude if he did.
I think its a big ask for lads to drop to your second team after a what was clearly a very succesful season - but thats the price of progress and something I'm sure every improving team has to deal with.
Some lads may be of the opinion that they may only have a short rugby career and want to play as a high a level as they can - you can only pick 18 on a match day.
It'll also be interesting to see if West's attitude against paying players softens any over next season.
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Author: MikeyBoy
Date: 20-05-08 09:58
thridteamer - please re-read honsec's post, as he says, there have been previous first team players who have enjoyed a good season with the stags this year
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Author: Chocky's Butler
Date: 20-05-08 13:16
Third teamer I have played firsts a few times but so what Youre obviously not from west so whats it got to do with you.
Any team that goes up a league and doesnt strenghen will probably come strait back down. The lads know that and theyre prepared to improve their play and fight for their places Im sure.
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Author: Stag1989
Date: 20-05-08 13:44
I think thats the whole advantage of having a bigger squad than in previous years, it puts pressure on the 1st team to keep their performances up - as they know that if they dont there are players more than capable enough of taking their place !
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Author: Thirdteamer
Date: 20-05-08 23:09
Mikeyboy you're obviously sure that honsec speaks for the entire playing squad but I wouldn't be too sure that any players who get replaced this year will feel the same - especially after such a good season.
Club loyalty obviously goes a long way but some players ambition will obviously make the difference. it's something which all clubs experience - I even remeber one of your most prominent current players training with us a few years ago.
CB, given that this is an internet forum I just thought I'd air my views is thats alright with you.
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Author: Chocky's Butler
Date: 21-05-08 10:01
OK your entitled to your say but all I see is someone from another club try to stir.
This is what you said ---------
Quote:
Having watched a North One game the other week while we were down at Birkinhead park I'd say West will need to make a few signings to compete at that level.
Then you say that if we take your advice and strengthen the team itll put everyones noses out and theyll join another club. It seems obvious that youd like them to join yours
Post Edited (21-05-08 10:03)
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Author: Roverite
Date: 22-05-08 08:49
CB
For the avoidance of doubt
I did indeed say that West will need to strengthen their ranks to have any sort of an impact on North One - having whatched a game that was my opinion.
I also think that this will obviously put some "noses out of joint" given how well West have done this year - I hardly think that any observation of this kind is hard to come too. As I said in previous post - thats teh price of progress and you cant keep everyone happy.
I'm simply pointing out that your view of club loyalty and everyone being happy to take one for teh team will wear a bit thin - and to be hones their are obviously some players at West who I'd like to see playing for Rovers but I hardly think thats a revelation.
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Author: Chocky's Butler
Date: 22-05-08 09:56
I thought my issue was with someone called Third teamer who now comes clean and says he is a Roverite. point proved
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